Daily Kos

Admiral Fallon for VP?

Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:23 PM PDT

Although I posted this earlier on a VP open thread, it scrolled off before I could finish so I thought I'd repost the comment as a diary, especially since the post was titled "5 p.m. PDT Daily Open Obama V.P. Thread #2: Mother's Day Edition (w/poll)" and was subtitled an "all woman," post, and I am not one of those. Anyway, apologies for having posted an unintentionally unfeeling comment in your diary, ourprez08.

I read an interesting post today at Counterpunch written by David Michael Green. The entire article is entertaining and deals primarily with the fact that Obama has it pretty well wrapped up, but what I found interesting was his suggestion for Obama's VP. It was Admiral William Fallon. This is what Mr. Green had to say;

What Obama needs – especially going up against a Republican, especially in wartime, and especially a John McCain – is some serious national security gravitas.  In this respect, I might be tempted to draft Admiral William Fallon for a running mate.  Maybe the guy has bad politics, and maybe he would be a bad politician – though he’s spent a lot of time at a much related task, doing diplomacy in the Pacific and the Middle East.  I don’t know.

What I do know is that he opposed the surge.  That he wanted to draw down forces in Iraq and redeploy to Afghanistan.  That he supposedly (Fallon apparently denies it) called General Petraeus an "ass-kissing little chickenshit" for carrying the administration's water by selling its Iraq policy at home.  And that he just got fired from his job as top American military commander in the Central Command (Middle East), probably because he overtly opposed a US attack on Iran, and could be counted on to do so again on D-Day.

Who else could instantly give Obama national security bona fides while simultaneously eviscerating McCain’s advantage in that domain?  Who else could speak with credibility against an October attack on Iran, and save the Democratic bid for the White House in 2008, if BushCo tries such a ploy?  Americans hate Bush and they hate his war and they don’t want a third one.  All they need to make the leap is some Colin Powell-like dude to give them permission to think for themselves.  Since we know Powell won’t be providing that particular service in this lifetime, perhaps Fallon could.  McCain would look pretty silly arguing for more stupidity in Iraq against a guy who was the actual commander of the theater.  And McCain’s own raison d'être – the politician who was once a war hero – would also be slashed in significance up against another cat who also flew naval combat sorties in Vietnam and elsewhere.  Obama could do lots worse than Fallon.

If nothing else, I thought it was reasonable, and would add a lot of gravitas to Obama's campaign. And that Fallon was fired by Bush makes it even better.

Tags: Obama, VP, Adm. William Fallon (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 32 comments

  •  Way too risky (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, Liberal Youth

    I don't know too much about him, but as far as I know, he has no experience in political office, no experience campaigning, we don't know his stances on just about every major issue, and probably the most important one is that we don't even know if the guy is a Democrat. Obama can't afford to take such an incredible gamble.

  •  I'd much rather have him in the Cabinet (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, BrighidG

    than VP. He's got valuable experience but his politics are all wrong.

    "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -Barack Obama

    by stefanielaine on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:52:07 PM PDT

  •  National Security Gravitas (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    stefanielaine

    and more endless braid?

    How about less obliterating, more talking and more diplomacy a la Richardson,  less fear and less shock and awe. Real Change..

    Think Tank. "A place where people are paid to think by the makers of tanks" Naomi Klein.

    by ohcanada on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:54 PM PDT

  •  I had the pleasure... (0+ / 0-)

    of working as a SCEP(student career employment program) in the admissions department at the Asian Pacific Center for Security Studies for a couple of years. He would make many appearances there. Although I never had the pleasure of being treated poorly by him I heard many rumors that he wasn't the nicest guy and that many had dirt on him. What kind  of dirt? I don't know but dirt is dirt.

    •  Care to substantiate? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      peraspera, Anarchofascist

      many had dirt on him. What kind of dirt? I don't know but dirt is dirt.

      I'm not particularly a fan of Fallon's but if this is all you've got, kindly cease the rumor-mongering.

      "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -Barack Obama

      by stefanielaine on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:57:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  quick to hate (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Sui Juris

        I was just saying what i heard. Whats different than saying he would be good when there is no clear evidence he is perfect?

        •  I'm not hating. (0+ / 0-)

          I'm just not a fan of unsubstantiated gossip. When you've got details, share them. If you don't hae details, "I heard that somebody has some kind of dirt on him" isn't productive. Sorry if that seems harsh but I think it's just basic civility.

          "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -Barack Obama

          by stefanielaine on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:06:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Crap, hae=have. n/t (0+ / 0-)

            "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -Barack Obama

            by stefanielaine on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:06:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I still don't get it (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              allep10

              When someone quotes something they read from a newspaper or forms an opinion from something they saw on TV about the guy it's civil but when I choose not to name the secretary that told me (to my face) he would cuss her out for like the most minor things, to the point where she would cry, or name the people, I would have to stand at attention with whenever he poked his head in the office, that said bad things about him it's not civil. Everybody has dirt and if you start dropping names for positions like VP one must recognize that fact before they say he might/might not be a good idea. I stand by comment because I believe it would counter productive to rule him in without recognizing their are people that MAY have dirt. Why are not a fan of his?

              •  Thanks for your comments, Ronnie, (0+ / 0-)

                I posted this because I found it interesting, but I have only Mr. Green's inclination that it would be a good idea. Your personal reflections are valuable.

                •  thank you (0+ / 0-)

                  for your contribution to information gathering. Please don't feel like I was singling you out or anyone else here by my choice of words. Opinion versus facts are often the only way we can make decisions I was only trying to figure out why I could/should be labeled as being "uncivil". Thank you again  

              •  If you have real dirt, say what it is. (0+ / 0-)

                If you don't even know what KIND of dirt it is, don't mention it. I'm not suggesting that you have to name your source. But come on, "dirt" could be anything. He's a jerk to work for? He's a serial philanderer? Worse? Bringing up the possibility of "dirt" without specifying exactly what kind of dirt it is, that's just rumor-mongering.

                I mean, what if somebody posted a comment that said, "Obama's a bad candidate because I heard somebody had some dirt on him. I don't know what kind of dirt, but dirt is dirt." Wouldn't you be up in arms? I would be.

                I'm not sure how to make my point any more clearly, so let's just agree to disagree.

                "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -Barack Obama

                by stefanielaine on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:49:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I agree to disagree (0+ / 0-)

                  but still am interested in why you are not a fan of his

                  •  I don't really have an opinion about him. (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm just not crazy about the idea of having a member of Bush's military industrial complex as Obama's VP, that's all. Nothing personal.

                    "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -Barack Obama

                    by stefanielaine on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:21:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Fair enough but (0+ / 0-)

                      for conversations sake one could argue the way he appeared to be given the back door boot he may not have been fully invested in the Bush military complex. Guilt by association isn't often the best dis-qualifier but I would say his acceptance of the presidents job offer, although saying "NO" would have been a career ender, should be seen as the same or just as much of a dis-qualifier as Clinton's war "YES" vote. Correct?

  •  Paul Woodward ... March15 (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ammaloy

    Fallon is now a free agent. Will he use his influence to more effect outside than he did inside the Pentagon? The answer to that may depend on who wins the Democratic presidential nomination, but if after a diplomatic silence of a few weeks, Ret Adm Fallon lends some solid military credibility to the campaign of the young senator from Illinois, I wouldn’t be surprised. And then, speculating even further over the horizon, why should we not ask: Which position offers the greater potential for Fallon to fulfill his stated mission?

    www.warincontext.com

  •  On one hand (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    BWildered

    He's a big player in a messed up Military Industrial Complex. On the other hand he has shown a hell of a lot more integrity than Colin Powell.He has at least forestalled an Iranian invasion (think speedboats)

    I don't know, you have me thinking.

  •  by the same criterion... (0+ / 0-)

    he could consider colin powell. though a republican, nominating him would confirm obama's attempt 2 unify the country...

  •  Dick Cheney had defense "gravitas", too (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ohcanada

    Why in the world do Dems keep getting suckered, over and over, into the same old traps?

  •  No military for VP, please. (5+ / 0-)

    They don't make good campaigners as a rule. And I prefer civilians in charge of the government. We have enough military in different parts of it. I am sure he's a good guy. But no thanks.

    •  It should depend on who (0+ / 0-)

      the individual we're talking about is, what kind of person he is, what his qualifications are.

      You are aware that George Washington served in the military, right?  As did Andrew Jackson, the founder of our party, and Abraham Lincoln, the greatest of the Republicans.  (And Eisenhower, the best Republican president since Lincoln.)  (Also Grant and a whole host of terrible presidents, of course.)

      And you wouldn't be one of those Carter lovers, would you?

      (And no, I'm not arguing that Fallon should be the VP.  I'm just saying that military experience is certainly not a disqualifier and may be a credit.)

      WARNING: There is a high probability that the preceding comment is snark. Use your best judgment (hopefully better than Senator McCain's).

      by Anarchofascist on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:38:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We had no military-industrial complex (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ohcanada, Anne Elk

        with Washington, Lincoln and Jackson. Eisenhower saw it, warned about it, and credit to him. It would be a strong and rare individual who could rise through the ranks now and be able to convince many (including me) that he had not been compromised by this democracy-threatening liaison. I don't want any weasels in my henhouse.

        "Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." ML King

        by TheWesternSun on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:00:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  agreed... (0+ / 0-)

      i'd go with bloomberg or buffett...

  •  last time (0+ / 0-)

    they ran an Admiral for VP, it wasn't pretty.  

    Steny Hoyer = a slam dunk argument for term limits

    by jlynne on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:05:52 AM PDT

  •  What is with America's Love Affair with Military (0+ / 0-)

    and intelligence agency bureaucrats becoming political candidates.  Are we that fearful we need a big daddy to protect us?  I think it's time to project a little reality into this paranoia many dems mistakenly call realpolitik.  

    Experience Failure 2008: McCain

    by crescentdave on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:33:58 AM PDT

  •  all should be accepted... (0+ / 0-)

    ..who are willing to pivot in this moment towards moving in new directions.

    If Admiral Fallon is such a man, then he should not be excluded.  We need national discussions and debates, honest and open, about where we are now and where we want to be down the road, what we are now and what we want to become as a people.

    For decades, retired military personnel have followed career paths into think tanks and into the military industrial complex.  These people are going to be involved either as part of the solutions or as obstacles.

    We cannot disown them and pretend they're not relevant because they will make themselves relevant to some group, with or without our permission.

    People like Karl Rove and Grover Norquist worked to fashion a country that excluded liberals/progressives.  They boasted that the Democratic party was dead and predicted that conservatives would control government for decades to come -- or perhaps, forever.  "Liberalism is dead."

    Yet, here we are, stronger than ever.  

    It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. Alfred Adler

    by Quicksilver2723 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:12:12 AM PDT

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